Tuesday, November 1, 2011

Coffee Talk

[Thanks Autumn]

Hey there, magic fingerers!

What were you for Halloween?

[Thanks! Maisha and her hand-sewn octobeard]

I hope it was something awesome.

I hope you got compliments all night.

I hope it was so spectacular that it could have competed with this little gem: 


Isn't he good?

Christ, the little glasses!  

The hand-knitted Gyffindor scarf!  The tiny Quidditch broom! 

Not a lick of photoshopping!

The Red Door Animal Shelter in Chicago had another "Hoppy Hour" to raise money for their programs, and I had another split-second of is-this-crazy-I-think-this-might-be-crazy decision-making to do about whether or not to go.

Guess what won out.
[thanks Ariel]

I mean, 'cause - remember when Midgeon P. Bundlesworth wore lederhosen last Halloween?

It was so exciting last year that I was all set to take her again on Saturday.
My star! 
My ingenue!

I got out the bunny carrier. 

I filled it with nice fresh hay and went in search of Migeon P.

She was stretched out on the bathroom floor.

I bent down to her, shaking the bunny carrier enticingly.

Me: Midgie!  My bun!  Halloween time!  Ready to get allll dressed up?

Midgeon P. Bundlesworth:

I could not get Midge excited about getting into her carrier.

I actually couldn't get her into her carrier at all.

Well, whatever.
That's why I have two rabbits.

I went over to Timothy Maxwell Thumperton, who is young and stupid and doesn't know better than to trust me yet.  

He hopped into his cage and off we went.

Isn't he glamorous.

A born model. 

I'm sure my phone will be ringing off the hook the instant the agencies in New York catch sight of him. 


Faggettes, we haven't got time for the pages and pages I could fill with bunny pictures.  

(There is a CD with 33 images on it of Timmy's day at Hogwarts.  I'm just sayin'.)

Today we have work to do.
[thanks Ari A.]

Now, I know your guard is down.  
I know you’re hungover and exhausted from Halloween festivities.

But that’s just where I want you.  

Wincing at the florescent lights at work.   A little bit tender.  


Because today we have a….


Alright, put your books under your desk and take out a sheet of paper.  

No candy on your desk.  

Or in your mouth, young lady, don't make me write you up.

This quiz counts as 85% of your Homosexuelle Behaviors 1003 essay grade for this quarter. 

You have five minutes.

QUESTION #1:  Anna and Lauren.


Anna, aged 21, and Lauren, aged 19, met at a their queer student union cosmic bowling night a couple of weeks ago. Each of them came with other friends, but they quickly discovered they both had the same snarky, sarcastic sense of humor and shared a fondness for elaborate dances when they bowled a strike.  They exchanged looks, then trash-talk, and, by the end of the night, numbers.  Anna and Lauren both admitted they thought the other “was cool” and that “they should hang out sometime.”
Anna texted Lauren the next day. They agreed to meet for coffee.

They are sitting inside a coffeeshop together as we speak, and neither one knows what’s up.

Is this a date-date or is this a friend-date?

Why or why not?


QUESTION #2: T.K. and Sonja.

[by diana via fuckyeahdykes]

T.K., aged 26, and Sonja, aged 28, met each other at the trendy restaurant where they work.  Sonja had her eye on T.K. loooooong before she ever talked to hym, but T.K. always seemed too cool for school and was really quiet.  Turned out, hy was just shy as hell. 

T.K. thinks Sonja’s fucking gorgeous, and they are just starting to joke around with each other on the job, swatting each other with towels and bitching about their shitty tables. Sonja suspects T.K.’s into her, but she can’t be sure.  She friends T.K. on Facebook and discovers something - T.K. has a partner.   
Well, shit. 

Two weeks later, T.K. asks Sonja if she wants to get drinks on their day off.

Sonja’s standing in front of her closet, trying to decide what to wear, ‘cause…

Is this a date-date or is this a friend-date?

Why or why not?


QUESTION #3: Jess and Meghan.


Jess, aged 32, and Meghan, aged 40, met each other at their lesbian book club, where they’re re-reading lesbian classics, such as The Well of Loneliness and Stone Butch Blues. Meghan is a lawyer, a prominent LGBTQ organizer in town, and she has trouble finishing the books before the club meets each month.  Jess is a vet tech, very laid-back, and she has a huge crush on Meghan (and the way Meghan comes to book club directly from work in her power suits.)  Meghan thinks Jess makes fantastically witty comments during the meetings, and wishes she could read more into each book the way Jess does.  

She invites Jess to a reading by a local dyke poet.
It’s at 8 p.m. on a Friday.

Jess is excited and takes a shower before the reading.  

She shaves her legs, but…should she neaten up everything down there?

Is this a date-date or is this a friend date?

Why or why not?

Pencils down, homos!

Pass your papers forward.

Wasn't this dreadful?
Wasn’t this hard?

Well, this shit is hard.  

It's almost impossible.

And it's our topic for today.

How Do You Know When You're on a Date?
[thanks Wade L.]

It's a problem fairly unique to queers, and especially queers who date women.  

'Cause women are so gosh-dang friendly!

It's problem so all-encompassing that entire books have been written about the subject.
[I found this on an LGBT bookshelf at a thrift store by my house.  It's funny.  It never actually answers the question.]


Is it a date, or is it just coffee?

Is it a date, or is it getting-to-know-you drinks?

Or: Is this how you meet all your new friends, or do you want to sleep with me?
Ready for answers to the quiz?

Let's wade through this manky, fetid puddle of confusion.

Question #1: Anna and Lauren.

Anna and Lauren are on a date. 

They're on a date because...

a) they met at a queer social activity and hit it off.

b) they were exchanging looks and flirting.

c) after the phone number exchange, Anna texted Lauren right away and asked her to go out. 

d) both of them are hoping it's a date.

Letter 'd' is crucial.
Both parties hoping it's a date can only mean one thing - they're on an effing date.  

Eventually, Anna and Lauren will figure it out. 
*Dyke Folklore Time!*

Lesbians are famous for asking one another out for coffee.  

It's incredibly confusing, as said coffee often happens at night or after sustained, heavy flirting for weeks on end.

No one knows why this is.
[via thenewquintwinism]

The only reasons for this coffee business that I can think of are:

1.  No one likes rejection and coffee sounds casual.

2.  Homos are treating 'coffee' like a no-strings-attached pre-screen for all potential dates, thus allowing them to assure themselves that the potential date actually is likable, cute, and able to hold a conversation before they move into truly committed territory, i.e. a real date. 

It's a helluva lot easier to blow someone off later if you "just went for coffee."
[thanks drawingpicturesforyou]


Question #2:  T.K and Sonja.


The answer to this is: FuckifIknow.

T.K. and Sonja both like each other, or at least find each other attractive.  
They've been flirting.  They're friends on Facebook.  
T.K. knows hys status says "In a relationship," and Sonja now knows T.K. is in a relationship.

And yet...T.K. wants to get drinks.  At night.  
Alone with Sonja.

[thanks Hannah M.]


-It's entirely possible that T.K. is in an open relationship.
-It's entirely possible that T.K.'s lover is in grad school in Argentina for the next two years and T.K. is single 'till she comes back.  
-It's entirely possible that T.K. thinks Sonja is attractive, but is only really looking to further their friendship.

Sonja will have to go out with T.K. and ask hym to find out.

But I would dress like it's a date, if I were her.
Just in case. 
Boobs are appropriate for all occasions.
[thanks Morgan]

Question #3:  Jess and Meghan.

Jess and Meghan are (probably) not going on a date.

I don't think.

Jess and Meghan are probably not going on a date because:

a) they only vaguely know each other and haven't spent any one-on-one time away from their book club.

b) Meghan is an LGBTQ leader in the community, and, like many good leaders, may invite folks to do things at a drop of a hat.  

She's a people organizer.  People organizers are awesome.  
But you know what people organizers do?

They organize groups of people.

It's entirely likely that Jess will get to the reading to discover not just Meghan, but the nine other queers Meghan has also invited.
[thanks Wendy M.]

I'm leaning towards "this isn't a date", but y'know, dykes are tricky.

It's possible that Meghan really did ask Jess out on a date-date.  Jess really won't know till she gets there. 

I wouldn't shave my chocha for it, but that's just because I am an elegant and sophisticated lady.
[via girlswholikegirls]


It. is. hard. to. tell. 

When a straight man asks a straight woman to do almost any activity alone together, unless it’s work-related, it’s usually a fair assumption that it’s a date.  

Same thing if the woman asks the man.

They’re going to be alone together.  
Society calls that a date.  
Case closed.

But what if you’re a queer?

And what if most of your friends are the same gender as you, as well?

It's hard to make friends when you're finished with school!

We have to reach out to one another to get anywhere! 
[thanks Kristen]

Telling a date-date from a friend date, while a highly entertaining, scientific art, is sometimes just a matter of asking the other person what they have in mind, no matter how excruciating that may be.  

Or you could try leaning over to kiss them and losing your balance and falling off your bar stool because they're pulling back and staring at you.

Totally hypothetical.

So how did you do on the quiz?

The answers are obvs a lil' hazy, I'm by no means an expert on this one.

Anybody else had problems distinguishing between romantic dates and friend dates?


  1. Yes! I have been thinking of this a lot recently! glad to hear it's an issue for queers as a whole and not just confusing me ;)

  2. Okay, two things:

    (1) Those bunnies are fucking adorable and that costume is GENIUS.

    (2) You have no idea how much time I've spent on this question or how often I've had to ask my friends their opinions, which will inevitably cause me to take the opposing side.

    Example --

    Me: *nervously trying on every plaid shirt I own AKA 99% of my wardrobe* I think it's a date. I think she's into me. We've been flirting a lot. And she said I was cute. And we're going on this walk alone. But that could be mean we're just friends right?

    Lovely Friend: *obviously has better things to do than coax me out of craziness* It sounds like a date to me.


    Lovely Friend: But --

    Me: *tries to be upbeat* WELL, that's...OKAY. I can always use a new friend! Friends are great!

    Lovely Friend: Yeah, sure, a new friend.


    This continues until I either leave for the date or the friend makes an excuse and leaves the room/hangs up on me.

  3. haha yeah the bunnies are toooo effing cute!!

    and omgggg that's so truee!
    damn, life's just too tricky

  4. I totally failed this quiz. In real life.

  5. I've spent the last three years in two different long-term relationships which came about after I did the whole confession thing. I've never been on a date-date. The whole concept of asking someone on a date is foreign to me. AM I A PERMANENT HIGH SCHOOL KID OR IS THAT ACCEPTABLE FOR A 22-YEAR-OLD, IDK.

  6. I've gone on two trips to the movies (including an outdoor movie theatre with cuddles) as well as dinner with one girl. She's "straight unless the right girl comes along." WHAT IS GOING ON?

  7. Even with guys, i've never been on a date-date. Well, it was never a date in my mind, at least. I'm pretty sure I'll never knowingly go on a date-date with a girl, because, unless stated, I would be in denial (because, well, HOW CAN SUCH AN AWESOME HUMAN BEING BE INTO ME and/or I would very highly get extremely anxious)

    Also, I used to have a kind of big crush in high school on the girl closing up the Meagan-Jess segment. It's... really weird to see it in these circumstances.

  8. This is my favorite lesbian tv moment answering the question "Is it a date?" It even tackles the coffee issue:


  9. BUNNIES!!! :D

    Argh...with guys, there are those I wouldn't date EVER and do stuff with them and then there are those that if I talk to them frequently, get suspicious of intentions.

    Then there are the obvious straight girls who are just friends and the random maybe-she-could-be-bi girl who's texts me all the time and I could probably be flirting with her but I have no idea.

  10. This is a common problem in Western Massachusetts. We tend to designate it as coffee or Coffee, with slightly more emphasis on the capital C. However, weirdly pronouncing coffee is usually only jokingly used among friends, so the original problem remains.

  11. 1. Oh my god, the rabbits.

    2. I have never been on a first date-date that I was actually sure was a date-date until long after it was over. While it is sometimes possible to tell if something is a date-date or a friend-date between two people who aren't you, I think it's impossible to be objective enough when you're one of the parties. Unless, of course, the asker said something along the lines of, "I think you're hot. Want to go on a date?"

  12. Oh my god!!!!! Hahaha. This is my life right now. I have now asked all six of my housemates and my boss and I am still undecided if I went on a date this weekend.

    We went to coffee last week on what may or may not have been a date. I proposed the coffee because it's casual and naturally supposed to be short, but can be longer if you want to extend it. Seriously, so hard to know if you're on a date or not esp. if the person is naturally flirty.

    I understand that the easiest thing would just be to ask, but that seems like the hardest thing too.

  13. I support the "you know when you get there" hypothesis. My partner and I got together on what was supposed to be a friend-date (we were friends in college, hadn't seen each other in a year or so), but turned into a date the instant we set eyes on each other again... which was pretty awkward. But ultimately awesome!

  14. I got 100%. I test well. In real life, I'd get them 100% wrong. I hate real life tests.

  15. Well, the married lady got all of these wrong.

  16. Oh my gosh. This completely describes my relationship with a friend of mine. We've known each other for years, and whenever we see each other, it's always for dinner and a movie. There's always casual flirting, on both sides. Each time we go our seperate ways, I convince myself that she's one of those naturally flirtatious people, because absolutely nothing has progressed. And yet...I remain quietly hopeful, because DAMN, she's good looking.

    Also...that bunny. Good god. Too cute.

  17. all three of them are dates to me... i don't even think there is a difference between dates and friend-dates, i mean most of the friends did i start to date in the beginning anyways... but then did we end up being just friends. do you know what i mean? and i almost never drink coffee with friends (only at home!)... i only do it with a person i want to get to know better and hopefully will get a crush on later. yeah, all of them are dates too me. it could even be a date if the other one brings a friend, it all depends about if it's flirty or not...

  18. I've never dated. We just keep spending time together until we start making out. Even then I'm not positive- usually once we move in together I'm pretty sure, before that all bets are off.

    I think I need better/worse friends.

  19. At least I'm not the only one. When I started dating my current GF I wasn't sure whether it was a date or friend-date for the first three dates. She thought I wasn't into her at all, I was so oblivious. Finally she just kissed me. Even then I wasn't 100% sure until the next date, which was definitely a date, or at least I was sure it was when she ended up naked in my bed :-)

  20. coffee is for dates or serious things. if someone wants a friend they invite them to something fun, usually you already share an interest. coffee is for talking, and gaining access to kissing, because "i know you now." the poetry reading didn't sound like a date. but you know what? just wait and see, damn, why you sexing someone the first time you actually hang out? delay it, and make them crazy. then it could be something awesome, or when you hook up, they might act a little intense. just saying.

  21. This was a huge problem for my girlfriend and I at first. We were pretty into each other but neither of us had the lady balls to say anything. Friend dates with people you're into kind of suck royally. But it worked out. Just took a drunken confession or two. But now we're getting married!

  22. OOPS. I think I've been on a ton of straight-guy-dates.

    I should probably clear that shit up...

  23. I think it's just as hard to tell with boy dates as with girl, but maybe I am just socially inept. or being bi makes it just as hard to tell.

  24. I think Ruth Callander perfectly sums up this up in the 'Stealth Attack Date':


    I pretty much assume it's a date-date and flirt a lot the whole time. If they don't respond, well, their loss! Better than being all self-conscious and driving my friends mad with 'what if'?


  26. well i sucked ass on the quiz, but i get bonus points because: i totally asked my current girlfriend, pre-first-date, if it was a date-date or just lunch. bc i have to plan outfits accordingly. ^_^ i've always just felt more comfortable getting that shit out in the open so everyone is "on the same page"... and i'm about to celebrate my two-month anniversary with a great lady AND we just adopted a cat lol. textbook case over here.

  27. This blog topic came at a perfect time! I have been wondering this, as I'm going through this currently.

    So, gals, there's this GIRL....
    We have "hung out" three times. I pretty much dig her. She has to dig me as well--enough signs there to warrant a definite. For one, she has spent 3 of her days off with me instead of with other people. She brought me a bracelet of my favorite color from one of her out-of-town trips, and, yeah. (I hope that's mostly enough to assume).

    These comments have given me hope that it'll magically make the push from feeling like a friend-date to a date-date in the near future.

    In essence, we have been talking for a month, and neither of us has said anything or made a move. I was pretty worried and stressed out, but that was so unbecoming, so I just promised myself I would stop. I'm most attractive when I'm the confident, happy me. If it's gonna happen, it'll happen. ONE OF US will like the other enough to do something about it.

  28. to be fair, it doesn't matter if it's a date or not. if you're looking for a relationship, you probably want to take your time. and if you just want a hookup- do you really need to be on a date for that?

  29. Yes, this is always the problem... and, when asking, I never know if I should call it a date because usually if I'd like to date a girl, I'd pretty much equally like to be friends with her... so I don't want to scare her away by asking her out if she just wants to be friends, but also I would like to have a date! Maybe a lot of other girls are in the same situation and that's why we never know what the other is thinking.

    Last time a girl asked me out, she asked if we were calling it a date or just hanging out and I was so happy that she did that. If we're too scared to call it a date from the start then maybe this is what we could do... after making plans, ask if the lady you are inviting out if she would like to consider it a date or a friend thing.

  30. Hahaha this post made me laugh so hard! I once found myself on a walk-on-the-beach-followed-by dinner, maybe date (in retrospect, and only in retrospect we decided that it was one).
    I love the bunny photos, he is one cute little fur-ball.

  31. My strategy was always to cut past the confusion by making it clear when I asked a girl out that I meant as a date. But then I met my wife... and she went on one date with me and blew me off as a romantic partner. We still ran into each other, so we became friends over the next three years. I still pursued my strategy of being direct about dates... and she developed a crush on me. When she started asking me to do stuff with her - dinner, movies - I assumed she meant as friends until she brought me flowers, hung out at my house late, lingered at the door... yeah, she liked me. Then we hooked up and eventually married, the end. Moral of the story: you can try to cut through the confusion if you want, but if your love interest isn't interested in being direct, you'll end up in Ambiguityville anyways. It's okay; eventually you'll sort it out. Especially if she's a cutie pie.

  32. yeah i totally let the other person decide what it is. i don't ever make a move because in the back of my mind there's always the oh she's just being friendly thought that keeps popping up. what? she brushed her hand on my knee?!?!? does that mean? no, she's just being friendly. she's super exited to see me tonight?!?!? so am i, but i think she's being friendly. lingering hug goodnight with peck on the cheek?!?!....hmmm wait i think she might like me! or she's just being friendly.
    honestly i need it to be said out loud or my brain is rejecting the message! fuuuuck and one time it even ended by the cutest girl that i was sooo oblivious to saying "you know, you could have just asked me out and i would have said yes in a flash"......fml, i just stood there for five minutes with a face mixed with horror, surprise, and disappointment. damn it IM OBLIVIOUS TO ANY SIGNALS!!!

  33. When my now-wife and I were first super-crushing on each other, we arranged to "hang out and get coffee." That turned into an ELEVEN HOUR DATE, and she lent me pajamas pants and I slept on her couch because it was in the wee hours of the morning by the time we were done talking. Only I still wasn't sure it was a date-date and/or normal for her to interact with friends in this way, so I had to call a mutual friend to help me decode what happened. He said it was absolutely uncharacteristic of her, so I happily continued being inlike with her. And now...we're married!


  34. I'm having the same problem right now! We've had coffee, and then I invited her to a homecoming activity with friends (she said she was really happy I invited her). We've been texting and I really like her but I don't know how she feels. Agh, it's confusing!

  35. Oh hai, I was once on a walk-on-the-beach followed by dinner "date" too. What a coincidence... not...

  36. I must say, it's confusing all around. I'm bi, and not exactly out yet, which only further confuses the matter. Most of my friends are straight men, and it can be very difficult to tell if they're hanging out with me because they want to get in my pants or because they just want to watch the hockey game. Tricky. And I hate to be caught unawares.

  37. She thought we were dating (and had feelings & all that jazz). I thought she was mostly straight and wanted a queer friend. We not-dated for 3 weeks.
    It wasn't my fault! I'd tried things like gauging her reaction when I bought her drinks or adjusted her position playing pool or varied the number of x-s on texts(shutup I know we're not 15, the Dating Rules don't.)! It hadn't seemed even slightly favourable! Gay friendship is so. fucking. confusing.

  38. I failed the quiz because I thought they were all date dates!

    I have no idea how to tell if a date is a friend date or not, but when in doubt rock it out. And by "rock it out" I mean, shave everything. :-p

  39. I got this post on my birthday :D
    I'm so happy, this is the best birthday present ever.
    Also I totally failed that quiz.

  40. I aced this test, but I failed miserably at it in RL. :((((

  41. #2 happened to my gf. she was trying to make new friends. met a hip queer girl at work and was looking forward to a few beers and banter. girl tried to kiss her in the bathroom. oops.
    she was adorably confused on what she did to imply she was interested.
    she found my short flare of jealousy and "bitch better step off" reaction hot.
    great sex followed.
    win-win situation. i encourage her to make new friends regularly now.

  42. What I wanna know is htf do I get out of the friend zone and into her pants.

  43. Just found a website called Butches with cute animals and thought I'd share ;) http://butchesholdinganimals.tumblr.com/archive

  44. Hahaha I found a pic of CJ with Timothy Maxwell Thumperton!!!

  45. Sometimes the ambiguity is because you haven't decided if you want it to be a date yet. Like the pre-date thing. My last gf I asked out to sushi because she said she didn't like sushi and I needed to convert her (because WTF WHO DOESN"T LIKE SUSHI). Totally casual. Then it went really well so I decided this should be a date and asked her back to my place. Rest is history.

    So I realize that probably only makes things worse but... sometimes a date is only a date if you make it one.

  46. I have absolutely 0 input on the date thing, seeing as I went to homecoming and two movies with a guy before I realized he thought we were dating. Thaaaat got awkward.
    And I was Clark Kent for Halloween. It was great. I got to wear a tie.

  47. If you want it to be a date, you gotta make it one. Communication is key. C'mon, lesbians! We know how to pump info, or hell, we like being brazen. This need not be an issue. Just grab life by the balls! If you want it to be a date, make it a date!

  48. Omg.the bunnies are too cute! And I totally aced this quiz! RL too. Only prob I have is getting a girl to hang in the first place, to evaluate for future hanging and dates. The talking up to a hangout or date is the issue. How can I tell if she likes me or just wants to be friends. That's my question :/

  49. What if one girl thinks it's a date, and the other considers it a friend date? Is that an accidental date? Even if girl who thinks it's a date KNOWS the other girl is in a committed relationship? Did I (COUGH clueless girl) go on an accidental date? Making queer friends is indeed tricky business.

  50. I drop "buddy-terms" to girls that I'm not interested in dating. For example, if I just want to be friends with a girl, I'll consciously try to drop in 'dude', 'buddy', 'homie', or 'bro' in our convos to subtly indicate that said girl is just a friend to me. I think bro works the best haha.

    So yeah... if we're ever grabbing coffee together and you're not sure if it's a date or not, hearing me refer to you as buddy, bro, etc. should be a pretty good indication that we're just getting coffee as friends. That's just me, though :)

  51. This post came at the perfect time - tonight I'm going on my third is-it-a-date-date-or-friend-date with this girl I would really like to be going on a date-date with. The "Anna and Lauren" scenario is basically exactly what's going on.

    One problem: you say the key to the answer is that they both WANT it to be a date. I know *I* want it to be a date-date, but sadly, I cannot read her mind. WHAT NOW?? Oh, the joys of lesbianism...

  52. I was Rosie the Riveter! It was a hit.

    And Scenario #1 is EXACTLY what happened to me last week (except that instead of meeting at a queer bowling night, we met going to an Uh Huh Her concert with a mutual friend).

  53. Yes! It's soooo bloody complicated and I mix it up ALL the time! Ugh.

    Doesn't help that I'm only now starting dating. I spent eight years in a relationship I sorta fell into without having ever been on a date.

    So, my point, I've never been on a date! And now I'm single.

    I was wondering if anybody more experienced could offer advice on these scenarios:

    A. So, a few months ago I started chatting online to a girl. Got a crush on her from just chatting. Met up, discovered she's gorgeous as hell, friended on FB and discovered she's "in a relationship" but terribly flirty.

    I mean, insanely. The texts sometimes... *fans herself* Anyhow, a couple of months later it's a case of when either one of us asks the other for coffee, dinner, whatever somewhere in my mind I hope it's a date, but know it's not. Took several coffee-"dates" to figure that out though. I'm still hoping on some level tho!

    Case B. Met a lesbian party. She came to talk to me, but I asked her phone number. I texted her the next day for coffee. She said "yes" immediately and we chatted for five hours.
    Did not hear from her for a week. :(

    Then gathered my courage and invited her out again. And she said "yes" again. Still had fun. Did not hear from her for a week. AGAIN.

    Well, third time's the charm, so I invited her to a movie we'd talked about the last time. Her text to my "wanna go" was "YES!!! Just tell me when and where!"

    So that movie is next week.

    Her right now? Not initiating any sort of contact but never said no to me once.

    Help me out! Does she want nothing to do with me? Is she just really shy or what? I'm thinking that is she didn't like me at all she wouldn't keep on saying yes to meeting up. But, if she wanted to be just friends, she wouldn't be that shy about contacting me... or... I don't know!

  54. Oy, do I ever have this problem. Doesn't help that I've only dated two women and am as completely oblivious as a young rabbit who doesn't know when not to trust you yet.

    This explains why both women had to sit me down and explicitly explain that they were interested. In the case of one, this led to my unexpected deflowering in the back of a really shitty van, and in the other, a thorough explanation on the side of the road--where I was informed that we had, by her definition, been on no fewer than four dates, including moped rides, introduction to her mother, cheap wine and cheetos, and a paid-for ticket to a play we had both wanted to see.

    If the second sounds a bit nicer, it absolutely is. Even though I'm still oblivious, she still likes me.

  55. This is the best. I just entered into a situation like Anna/Lauren with a friend of mine! I have to agree that the main problem with this scenario is that while we may both want it to be a date, I can't know for sure that she wants it to be a date. Without asking, of course. But that would be reasonable.

    Also... Timothy Maxwell Thumperton is probably the cutest thing I've seen all day. Well, apart from the aforementioned friend. :]

  56. HARE E. PAWTER! Unbelievably adorable.

    Gosh, that test was really stressful. I almost broke out into a cold sweat just after reading the first question.
    Totally been there. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has experienced this date-date/friend-date paranoia.

    There is no way I could ask someone what they had in mind, if they thought it was a date-date or a friend-date. I'm screaming internally just thinking about it... what if they thought it was a friend-date and think you think it's a date-date and things get weird aaaaaaahhhh no being cryptic and over analyzing their body language is much less stressful.

  57. I think if one girl asks another girl out for a date, she should make it clear! For example
    Asker-"Hey, I think you're super cute and I'd love to buy you dinner sometime"
    askee "that sounds cool!"
    Asker "ok great, and just so you know, I plan on looking cute, so you should too. How 'bout sushi?"
    askee "mmm I love sushi, how bout friday?"
    asker "friday it is! I'll call you tomorrow to iron out all the details!"

    Then BAM! You're going on a date, so you can really bring it. None of this half assed is it or isn't it business. Be brave ladies!

  58. what if your first date was a date-date and you want to move backwards into friend-date-land because going on a date-date turned out to be so totally not a good idea at all?
    i ask, more specifically is there a way to do so with out the lame "its not you its me" speech somehow
    bc the date-date needs to never happen again bc she admitted she is a a 'throws rocks at your window and slashes your tires" type- which makes any further date-dates a bad -bad idea.
    also, whoops.

  59. I always say that something is not a date unless both parties agree to it. If you are out with someone, and you do not think it is a date, it is not a date.

    The things that some people will think are dates are ridiculous. I once was talking with a friend, mentioned that I was hungry, he asked if I wanted to get food, and then told our friend group that we had gone on a date. Nah, we ate pizza because we were both hungry.

  60. I found myself laughing at the bit about Queers and coffee. It's so hilariously valid. :)

  61. first off i love this blog..2nd i'm still laughing at the fact my picture
    was used...what a interesting picture used.. (ari a. at the top..the work picture) ha. i just felt like wearing a striped shirt and tie that day... does anyone else feel this urge to dress very biz/dykie...otherwise i'm pretty andro.. i request a fashion blog on the topic androgyony in the lez community...i know it's been done before.. oh well.. sidenote.. relationships suck, dating is awesome!

  62. I once declared that a night out was "a date" to the person I was heading out with. She laughed uncomfortably and looked away.

    At the end of the night we were kissing... don't you love it when you get it right? :D

  63. UGHHH,
    especially since I'm in a situation where I'd like to specifically meet queer girls for friends (not really wanting to get into a relationship atm) this is proving tricky. Especially since I'm asking people to hang out and they know I'm single... and I know they are confused. But it seems so akward to just blurt out 'btw this is not a date, hahahaha'
    oh well. maybe i'll just call them bro and that's sorted.

  64. EEEEK! Yes I have had this problem!!! Sometimes it is ridiculous. I usually have to read the situation by whether they are flirting with me or not. However, I have made a fatal mistake one time with a particularly flirty lady, who apparently flirts with everyone and invites everyone to coffee and a movie like it's nothing special...and then denies that she ever flirted with you after extensively complimenting you and texting you directly after you hung out the first time and said how awesome you were.

    Not that I'm bitter or anything.

    It was pretty bad...I thought it had been a date and that she liked me and then I saw her at a bar the next night and I was DRUNK and she was with another girl and I may or may not have punched her and called her a tease because I was upset...

    Yea, long story short...it's fucking confusing. And I failed the quiz =(

    Come to think of it, I had coffee today with a girl who is also gay and I'm still not sure if it was a date or not... :/

  65. Oh my god. This issue has come up again and a-freaking-gain. The earliest incident was when I was fourteen and doing a summer internship. My co-intern, who was my age, and I came out to each other on facebook chat while we were at work. She called me a few nights later and asked me to a movie. I freaked out, but then it seemed really platonic. Cue the fourteen yer old drama.

  66. I went on my first coffee-date a couple weeks ago with a girl I'd met online. It was awkward, and although I now have her number and I know she wanted to meet up again at some point, I have no idea wtf is going on. She hasn't been in touch, so that doesn't help either... At least I'm not alone in this (though I don't know if that's really comforting lol). I guess I'm just too new to this thing to have the balls to just ask, for fear of embarrassing rejection. I never really went on dates with guys, and had lots of guy friends later confess how into me they were, so none of that experience seems to have lead to wisdom in this area...

  67. Maybe it's because I'm a caffeine addict but I ask friends out for coffee all the time. Usually in groups, but sometimes not. Coffee is awesome, and I like talking to my friends at least as much as I like talking to dates. Coffee-dates can be really awkward, but they are convenient and informal, so that's a plus.

  68. post something new Krista! for christ's sake's! it's been two weeks!

  69. I failed. Each. Question. Oh well... now I know!


  70. I am straight and this is definitely not an issue only for queers! I think it is cultural. In Europe, in many places, it is very common for women to have male friends, and at the beginning of that friendship it is the same dilemma for both parts. Here, having coffee with a guy doesnt automatically mean it is a date... it could or could not be.

  71. To the Anon who started her post like this:

    "Anonymous said...

    Yes! It's soooo bloody complicated and I mix it up ALL the time! Ugh."

    In Situation A, you should leave that girl be. If you see that she's in a relationship, it's not an open one, she has not clued you in to her relaysh status, and yet still keeps sending you insanely flirtatious text messages, you need to leave that girl the hell alone until she comes to you. Ask for clarity. She will provide because a lot of people are surprised when someone is forward that way.

    As for Situation B, you need to understand that she's probably really shy and waiting for YOU to initiate contact for the time being. After a date, text her that you had a good time and think she's cute, and would like to take her out on another date. On this date, make a move. Kiss her. Hopefully, once she FULLY believes that you are into her, she will get a little more "brazen" and start sending YOU texts. She's into you because she's stoked to hang out with you, but she seems a little clueless and could use the confirmation that you are tryna GIRLF THAT!

    How'd that movie date go, by the way? Figure it out yet?

  72. Bunny is totally cute !
    and fuck your right but that our life i guess lol

  73. @Openly Saucy, still figuring that last one out. :) But at least she's not shy about contacting me anymore.

    And the first one... easier said than done. :P

  74. FUCK. YES. This has happened to me. A high femme chick who worked with me friended me on Facebook and asked for my number, started heavily flirting with me, but I didn't know she was into me since she seemed wicked STRAIGHT... I thought she was just being a polite little straight girl. But she asked me to get lunch one day, and part of me wondered... Is she asking me out...? Like. On a DATE? But I still thought she was just a very friendly hetero. I was becoming increasingly confused by her behavior towards me. I eventually did discover her intentions by means of trickery and tactful typeos, but it was baffling until that happened.

  75. Hey Lady,

    Just wanted to holler up a thank you for the good words. As an ex momo (divorced from another one), it's really awesome to read the journey of someone w/ a similar background who is now out. I wish we were friends.


  76. I met this woman in a grad class, and we started hanging out. I wasn't feeling any electricity, and I was psyched to have a new friend... but I was worried. We were doing very date like things, like going to plays and getting ice cream. But I just couldn't tell if we were actually going on dates. One night we were at this one woman show at this tiny theater project, and it had interactive parts... Stand up if this.. Sit down if that... and so on. And we were participating, and we were both seated and the actress says "Stand up if you are on a date." And it was horrifically awkward, I tried not to glance at her... and I didn't know what to do... and after about 8 hours neither of us had stood and the actress had moved on to another question. Whew. We've been friends ever since :)

  77. To be honest, I saw the rabbit pictures, and my heart jumped in the air ten feet.

    I have an adorable dutch bunny who i pretty much treat like a puppy.



  78. Had the same problem a few times, takes a different technique each time to distinguish a date date from a friend date.

  79. I had the most maddening "is it a date?" process this year, I liked this girl and she was super friendly and we swapped numbers after flirting(?) all night, and then got coffee twice, drinks once where I actually caught her looking me up and down, talked for an extremely long time, and made eye contact for the rest of the night after we got back to a larger party. She even asked me to walk her home, but then hugged me and ran inside. I was completely confused, and finally, after all her housemates asked me what was going on (she didn't tell them?!) and someone told me they thought she had had a relationship with a girl in high school, I decided to just make my intentions clear/put myself out of my misery and I asked her out to dinner.

    She didn't make it easy and I eventually had to spell it out, "It would be a dinner where I take you out to dinner... a date dinner" and this is when she pulled me aside to "talk." She explained that she thought I was beautiful, would be lying if she said she hadn't considered it, but knew that I had just gotten out of a long relationship (true) and wasn't sure about her intentions so she couldn't in good conscience say yes to me taking her out to dinner. BUT that it wasn't completely off the table and she would like to still hang out lots.

    so, I end up feeling kind of rejected, but also good about myself.. several months later, I started hooking up with another girl, despite our still hanging out in potentially date like settings, and then had to hug her goodbye, it was a crazy hug, and if we hadn't been in the middle of a crowded kitchen, I may have kissed her... and now I don't know if I will ever see her again.

    This whole business is too damn confusing if it doesn't begin with a hook-up, haha.

  80. ^^ Yes, if it starts as a hookup or dating site chat, dug. However, I've been dealing with the friends or more thing lately and I'm about to act on it/talk. It's been an anxious roller-coaster. Blegh. Worth it still though ;)

    Oh. My. Bunny. Harry Potter?! <3

  81. I had no idea if that time we went to the movies because my ex had just dumped me was a friend trying to help a sister out or rebound action. We've been together for over a year now, so I'm inclined to say it was a date, now.

  82. This was AWSM!
    The only time I had ever gone out one-on-one was for (you guessed it) coffee. I had some business to take care of in said girl's area and we made up to meet beforehand.
    It was nice. We both had very little to talk about and finished our coffee quite quickly. There was a LONG time until the meeting I had come for, so we took a walk. A LONG walk. Like an hour and a half. I told her she shouldn't feel like she has to stick around all this time, but she said she wants to. We paced the same blocks over and over, digging deep for any topic of conversation we could. It was getting awkward.
    We had gotten along SO well for about a month online... I think this unfortunate meetup ruined it all. We've gotten together since then, but with other people as well.
    I can't help but wonder if it was a date. She had texted me earlier that day, a few hours before we met, that she is picking out what to wear. Sounds like a date, no?

  83. I've never had any troubles with distinguishing the two kinds of dates before, or at least that's what I thought. This post made me remember a time in college when a girl asked me out for coffee. We'd exchanged compliments in the past (she actually complimented something of mine twice), shared a few classes, talked, laughed and all that good stuff, but I didn't know her well enough to just go off with her to a place I've never been to before. So I declined, and she never asked me again. Thing is, she also had a steady boyfriend. I don't know... She could have been curious, but she could have also thought of me as a lost puppy.

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