Monday, July 4, 2011

Are You Gonna Eat That?

[via TOMBOYFEMME]
Hiya fish-mongers!

How was your Pride?

Mine was, um, epic.

Live/drunk blogging was ridiculous.  

Nothing happened with God-Des, obvs.  
[God-des and She]
The girls I was driving with found her wandering the streets of downtown at 2:30 in the morning, looking for her hotel.  

We hollered at God-des, stuffed her and her posse into the car, and took them home.

I touched her shoulder veeeeeery gently with one finger in the car.

What a creep I am.
[via girlswholikegirls]
Pridwas so wonderful. 

It was so fun to see thousands of mos just dancing their asses off and wearing crazy outfits and having a great time.  

So good to be surrounded by my Minneapolis family.  

So good to show all of Minneapolis gaygirldom exactly which dance moves they haven't been missing since we moved to Chicago.
[viainternationalquiche]


Now, Minneapolis is rad, but I'm starting to feel like I'm cheating on it.

Every day, I fall in love a little harder with Chicago.

Seriously.  
Chicago rules.  

How did I not see it before?  


This city's awesome! 
There are tons of queer girls here!  
[thanks selma]


And they get up to some fairly interesting doings.

Take what I did last night, for instance.

Last night, I went to...

CLLAW event.  

CLLAW X: Red, White, and Bruised to be specific.

CLLAW is otherwise known as the Chicago League of Lady Arm-Wrestlers. 

Otherwise otherwise known as "Holy fucking shit, can you believe this exists???!!??"

Tricks, you have no idea.  

Imagine a sea of strong-ass female arm-wrestling contenders complete with themed outfits, costumed managers, and an entire matching entourage dressed in their champion's colors and screaming their damn heads off.

CLLAW, y'allfags.  CLLAW.

I'd never seen anything like it.  
[Armageddon and Connie Vict]


Among the contenders: 

1) A huge, insanely strong girl named Armkansas, whose theme was "backcountry hillbilly" and who had a fucking circular saw blade sticking up from her mohawk;

2) a feisty lil' girl named Killer Bee, break dancing in a bee costume with an entire "swarm" of mos in black and yellow;

3) a bodybuilder-looking type named Armageddon, wrapped in black spandex and toting machine guns while her fleet of fans (dressed as the bloody horses of Armageddon) pranced around her;

4) a tiny bit of a thing named Unibomber who flexed her little muscles as she rode in on a unicycle with her hood up, a mustache, and dark sunglasses;

5) annnnnd the winner of CLLAW IX, an adorable girl named Connie Vict, dressed in chains and a fresh-out-of-prison new denim jean jacket, complete with tattooed armsleeves and a snarl you'd have to see to believe. 

This wasn't regular arm wrestling, sluts.  
[via fckyeahptang]
The judges accepted bribes.
The bar was huge and packed.

The judges would suddenly decide they wanted to see a "Canadian Rules" match, where fists were covered in maple syrup before wrestling, or a left-handed match, or a match where where hands were dipped in Crisco, or a match where the Pledge of Allegiance had to be recited (correctly) while wrestling.

I had all my money riding on Killer Bee.  


She was one of the smallest contenders, but she seemed the most into it.  
[Killer Bee, via cllaw.wordpress.com]

As with many (ahem) things in life, enthusiasm often makes up for skill.

Killer Bee ended up winning, and I have no voice at all today. 

I don't think I've been so excited or screamed so much since Alma and Jordan took me for my very first trip to Trader Joe's and I realized how much goat cheese I could get for $4.

Anyway!  Enough talk about amazing all-girl arm-wrestling events, homos.

Today, I want to talk about a letter I received riiiiiight around Pride last week. 

The letter writer was clearly having drama.  


The email had been sent from a phone.
[via fuckyeahdykes]
No pleasantries.  No small talk.  
She got right to the point.  

Q:  "Krista. Do you think the 'bros before hos' rule applies to lesbians?  What do you think about dating your friends' exes?"

[via novelette]


Oh wow. 

I feel like this should be a lesbian self-help book.

Dating your friend's ex: Can it/should it be done?
[www.modelmayhem.com/binarybarcode]


Let me just start off with:  

I hate that "bros before hos" saying. 

Invented by straight dudes to keep women from 'causing' fights between guy friends. 

Offensive.  
Gross.


You know who causes fights among friends?
The friends.

Straight women have a similar saying - "chicks before dicks."


Same rule. 
Same lack of taking responsibility for your own actions.

Same idea: 

Don't let love interests come between you and your friends.
Never date your friend's ex.  

For girls, it's like the Female Friend Code.

We learned alllll about it in 4th grade.  

If Ann is going out with Mitch, and then Kelly goes out with Mitch two weeks later, shit is going to go down during afternoon recess.

Buuuut, after we all grew up a bit, things got a bit more complicated.

Things are a little...different for lesbians.
[via MAYTAGMAYTAG]


From what I've seen, it would appear that lesbians have filed the Female Friend Code away under a desktop folder titled "Cute Rules for Straight People."

Aww, straight people.

Straight people and their enormous dating pool of other straight people.

What happens to the Female Friend Code when the dating pool is reduced by 90% of the population?

What now, bitches?
[via hellogirls]


What happens when you live in a place with an extremely limited number of queer, potential dates?

What if you feel like you know every dyke in the city already? 

And everyone has already dated everyone else?
[via fuckyeahlesbians]
What happens to the Female Friend Code then?

I find it interesting that lesbians have no cutely rhyming phrases to teach the members of our ranks not to to mess around with the women our friends are dating.  


Alma suggested "cliques before clits" but I dunno.
[viatomidouche]
It doesn't work!


You know why we lezzers don't have a phrase like that? 


Because we date each others' exes all the time.


We kind of...have to.





We, as queermosexuals, have to deal with a vastly smaller dating pool.  
[by blair via fuckyeahdykes]


There just aren't that many of us.  

If you're queer, out, and even semi-social...it's quite possible you're going to date someone a friend has already dated.  

We can't afford to just cross a great woman off our list because a friend liked her/dated her. 


We don't have the 'luxury' of turning up our noses and sneering "sloppy seconds, dude, no thanks."


We'll take those sloppy seconds!  
Damn, we love leftovers!


And, while we're at it, what is so wrong with a woman having lots of previous lovers?  Hmm?



We need to assume that we lesbians are going to date each other's exes.
[viascribblrwords]
That is our given.

And if it's a given that we're going to date each others' exes, then...shouldn't we, as a people, be excused from the Female Friend Code?

This is what I was thinking when I started writing.


That we should abolish this heterocentric rule against dating our friends' exes.  

Be exempt from it.
Rise above.
[viasaturnimagine]
Enough with feelings!

Let's all say "fuckit" and go find our true loves, eh what?

Yeah!

Exempt, I say!
Exempt!  
[amber rose via fuckyeahdykes]
...um, right?

Shit. 
Wait, that means we won't have any friends left.
[viaparachuteshark]
Fuck, whaddowedo?


Maybe we should just ask our buddies very politely if we can date their exes.
[viablack-gold]
If they're our real friends, they should want us to be happy!  


'Cause that's totally the way things work!


Right?
Right?
[via hellogirls]


Well...Unless it's your best friend's ex.


Or the breakup was super recent.


Or super nasty.


Or they were together a long time.


Or if it's a case where your friend got dumped, and not the other way 'round.   


Or it was a long time ago but the ex was your friend's first or true love.
[via hellogirls]
Crap.
This is incredibly complicated.  


There's no set list of guidelines for dating your friend's ex, although I wish to jeebus there were.


There are just so. many. variables.


What if someone's ex seems perfect and it's been two damn years since they broke up?

And what if you date a good friend's ex-girlfriend and it causes major drama, but then it turns into a long, happy relationship?  

A true love kind of situation?
[via http://lesbianweddings.tumblr.com]
Does that negate any lingering hard feelings? 
Because it was serious?


I've been thinking about this for way too long.  
My brain hurts. 
[via hellogirls]
I'm going to go to the fireworks tonight and not even look at any girls.


Well...unless they're wearing booty shorts.  
Or sundresses.
Or tank tops.


That wouldn't be my fault, then.

70 comments:

  1. You make sense.
    On the flip side if you don't want your friend to date your exes, implement clitorference! Mwahahaha
    Ok not really

    ReplyDelete
  2. Straight people do it almost as often, but are more oblivious about it. Because we're forced to do it, I like to think we're a bit more mindful. Sometimes...

    Although I suppose looking at the dramatic embroilment of any given time always reveals something to do with exes and friends and friends and ohs and exes...

    ReplyDelete
  3. For one, I absolutely positively LOATHE the idea of following rules invented by straight people, for straight people. I don't know why it would ever enter a queer person's mind to do what they do. For practical purposes, and, of course, as a simple matter of principle and basic human decency and general rightness, we need to secure the same rights and protections that they do.

    It ends there, though. We don't need their "bros before hos/chics before dicks" bullshit. And, as you mention, it simply isn't practical for us. At all.We already have limited options. Why limit ourselves further? Makes no sense. And, we are all adults, not kids on a playground fighting over girls like jealous toddlers over the most popular toy. What's so wrong with dating a friend's ex? She's her ex for a reason. It's like being mad over a toy you don't even want.

    More proof that queers are more evolved than straight people. We got this. They'll learn.

    ReplyDelete
  4. I'm newly out, so I've never been in this situation, but I agree with Shannon. I don't think adhering to hetero rules or expectations serves the queer community very well.

    As for the particular topic of dating a friend's ex, imagine living in a very small town with barely and queer community at all! I don't see any way of navigating around that issue. The dating pool is so limited in some areas that there simply is no other option than to date people who have dated other people you know.

    ReplyDelete
  5. I think another factor that complicates the whole thing is that we are more tight knit (generally) than the straight community. Because we are a minority, I think we tend to see other 'mos as three things: potential friend, potential lover, and always a member of our collective. a straight person sees a member of the opposite sex as either a friend or a lover, because as "the norm", they don't have as much of a need for that sense of community.

    EXAMPLE! My ex of three years (to keep this simple, we'll call her "Tori") and I broke up, and started doing that weird exes-but-still-living-together-as-besties thing that we women sometimes do. most of the time, it sucked, because she was still an abusive piece of ----, but we were having more sex than when we'd been dating, so I stuck it out. then, I began dating a new girl ("Leigh"), we got hot and heavy really quick, and it burned out. . .but then she and my ex got together! The night that "Tori" and "Leigh" began dating, I happened to be hooking up with "Leigh"s ex's-ex, "Lauren". This was eighteen months ago. Tori and Leigh are still dating, and Lauren and I are still dating. The break up/hook up/mash up may have been incredibly awkward, but because our community is so small, we see each other often and we're all civil, sometimes even friendly.

    ReplyDelete
  6. @ The Deviant Dyke, I have been out since I was 14. I am now 30. I am from South Carolina(smmmaallll queer community, or at least small OUT queer community, for obvious reasons), and of course the queer circles are rather incestuous(sorry to use that word) here. I have also lived in Buffalo,Ny, NYC, LA, and briefly hung out in SF, where I hope to return to. Same thing. Small gay world. When you are only ten percent of the population, and highly marginalized ten percent at that...the rules change.

    It will be a happy day indeed when queers around the world realize that, and stop trying to imitate and worship straight people, for we will never be them, or be like them, nor should we want to.

    ReplyDelete
  7. "Tricks, you have no idea.

    Imagine a sea of strong-ass female arm-wrestling contenders complete with themed outfits, costumed managers, and an entire matching entourage dressed in their champion's colors and screaming their damn heads off."

    I've seen such wonder with my own eyes!

    Here at NOLAW. (New Orleans Ladies Arm Wrestling)

    www.youtube.com/user/WeAreNOLAW

    http://wearenolaw.org/

    ReplyDelete
  8. I'm bi so it's a little different for me. personally, I don't like the idea of dating someone's ex but if I really thought there'd be a chance for something good there with their ex I may ask my friend...depending on the person 'cause I know some people who, regardless of any variables, would kill me just for considering asking them. =P

    ReplyDelete
  9. sorry, can't comment, off to google "lady arm wrestlers" !! ....

    ReplyDelete
  10. @Harriet_T...you are right being bi makes it quite a bit different. You have a dating pool that we don't, so in matters such as these, you can afford to follow the Rules of the Straights. Those of us without the option for that huge untapped pool of men, though, have a totally different situation.

    ReplyDelete
  11. The very limited dating pool is also why I think long-distance relationships are so much more common within the community. My straight friends turn their noses up at such relationships. Well, straight friends, try having about 10% of the population to choose from.

    ReplyDelete
  12. uhh the heteros aren't always wrong. just because they made it up doesn't mean it's a stupid rule.

    ** don't date your friends' exes! **

    it's actually not that hard to do. feel like you already know all the homos? unless you live in a small town, you don't. go somewhere new and meet new people. play red rover red rover and haul in a straight girl.

    sheesh. unless you really truly looooooooove PROCESSING, dating your friend's ex is never worth it.

    ReplyDelete
  13. It's tricky - I have some exes where we had reasonably decent breakups (i.e. - I doubt any breakup is ever good, but, it was fair enough/far enough in the past/we've remained friendly) and I would totally be cool with any of my friends dating them. Hell, I might even try to set them up. Then there were a few with whom there was drama, like, DRAMA, and, along with the whole having-to-hang-out-again thing being awkward, I'd be kinda worried about how they'd treat their current ladyfriend.

    ReplyDelete
  14. I think it's almost impossible to avoid dating a friends ex. I live in Vancouver and although there is a reasonably sized gay community, it's still TINY.. and everyone knows everyone..
    It gets to the point where you can link yourself to any other lesbian you encounter pretty easily and quickly.. usually because you know someone they have dated.
    Instead of having rules about it, it's more about having respect in regards to who you have in common. If it was just a hook up, or your friend is now friends with the person.. then I see no issue with dating them/hooking up with them/doing whatever it is you two want to do. But if your friend is not on ok terms with the girl and/or would be really hurt by you getting with them.. then you have to respect your friend and find a way to go about it that doesn't hurt your friend as much. At the end of the day relationships come and go, but your friends are the ones who tend to stick around.

    ReplyDelete
  15. People are not your exclusive property. Of course you can date your friends' exes. Out of politeness, I might tell my friend that I was thinking about dating their ex, but I wouldn't ask permission. I might not date a friend's ex if it was a recent breakup, but this would be less because it's wrong and more because I'd worry about the potential drama and also might not want to date someone who seems like a shitty person.

    I wouldn't have a problem if any of my friends wanted to date any of my exes. I might worry that they didn't know what they were getting into, but hey, we're all adults, and my friends can make their own choices.

    ReplyDelete
  16. I disagree that "straight people" rules wouldn't apply to us just because. Aren't we similar in nature? Isn't it our argument that we're all really the same and want the same things?

    But I do understand the small dating pool. Hell, I'm in that pool and it sucks sometimes. I think we can "rise above," so to speak, as long as we are somewhat considerate of our friends. It's a personal choice, just like it would be if you were straight. If the relationship with your friend is more valuable than the potential with their ex, then don't go for it. But I think it's really the friend's problem, not yours, as long as you're considerate and talk about their feelings about it first. If they want you to be happy, I truly think they could get over it, even if it was a rough break up or your first love. The dating pool is too small, really.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I'm dating my best friend from high school's ex. They were engaged. It was messy.

    It took time for my friend to get over it. Eventually they did.

    There isn't a lot of choice when it comes to our world. Practically every lesbian I know has slept with every lesbian I know. Incest. It's what we are. *shrugs* What can ya do.

    Besides, working on our issues enough to be casual and comfortable in those situations make us better people. Win!

    ReplyDelete
  18. A cautionary tale of small town lesbian life......So, I had a friend whose ex I dated even though my friend didn't want me to. She and the ex had had a drama filled relationship that ended badly, repeatedly, and she said she didn't want me to go through the same thing. I dated the ex anyway. A few months in and, sure enough, we began having trouble. Fights ensued and my girlfriend (the ex) would head for the bar to "cool off", which meant having drinks with my friend (her ex) and talking dirt about me. The friend and I quit speaking to each other and eventually the ex and I did, too, but not before a really ugly scene that bordered on domestic violence and risked police intervention. Moral of the story....talk to your friend first and LISTEN to what she says.

    ReplyDelete
  19. I fell for my best friend's girlfriend about a year into their relationship. I did nothing, said nothing to either of them for 6 months. Occasionally we would all get drunk and A (the girlfriend) and I would hold hands. That was the extent of it. Then A and N broke up. A few weeks later, A and I sat down and had 'the talk'. She told me she had feelings for me and I said I felt the same. We dilly-dallied for a few more weeks, then decided we would give it a go. I called N and told her A and I had decided to see each other. She said something along the lines of 'fuck you' and hung up and we never spoke again.

    It's a year later now and A and I are living together and it's the most solid relationship I've ever been in. While I feel sad sometimes that N isn't in my life anymore, it was never dramatic and if she was a friend worth having she wouldn't have just dropped off the face of the earth!

    If everyone just stayed calm and was respectful, nothing would be that dramatic. As long as you don't hump your friend's ex's face in front of said friend, everyone should be cool.

    ReplyDelete
  20. My rules.

    Is friend the type who's always having drama? Do not date her ex*
    Is friend currently single and moping about it? Do not date her ex*
    Have you dated one of her previous ex's? Do not date her ex*

    *unless ex is superhot.

    ......um. I am easily led by my clit.

    ReplyDelete
  21. Krista - you were asking for pictures of lesbians of color and older lesbians? May I suggest the lovely Dykes and Dykery on Tumblr?

    http://dykesanddykery.tumblr.com/

    ReplyDelete
  22. the chart, exists.

    the older you get, the more people you meet, the smaller the chart becomes.

    I would never date my BEST FRIENDS ex, even if she was mindblowinglyhot, out of respect of the friendship.

    but...

    -mutual friends' exes
    -friends you only get drunk with exes
    -friends who used to be friends with your ex but now hang out with you
    -your "friend from high school/college who you used to have a crush on"'s exes

    go for it.

    ReplyDelete
  23. Thank you for writing this post Krista, could not have come at a better time.

    I think the question had far less to do with applying hetero rules to lesbians and much more to do with how much pain can be caused if a friend starts dating your ex and doesn't handle it appropriately. This happened to me. It hurt like shit.

    It wasn't because he (the friend) was dating my ex gf, although i didn't like it. What really hurt was how soon it happened after the break up and how poorly the handled telling me (they didn't handle it). Instead of talking to me and saying 'this is what we're doing,' which many of you have mentioned as a reasonable course of action (I completely agree), they just started hooking up at a party, on the dance floor, when I was five feet away and month after my break up to her and I was still working through my loss. Not only that, she was my first gf and he was the friend I'd confided in about the feelings I still had for her and that I was having trouble letting her go.

    So, I understand that the dating pool is small. Dating friends happens. I am not angry at either of them for dating each other. I would never begrudge a person their happiness because I dont like what they're doing, especially since it has nothing really to do with me. Never once did I tell them 'you can't see each other,' I only ever asked them to keep it away from me (which they didn't).

    I wish I could put this next part in bold because it is very important, and actually a conversation I just had this evening. A relationship should never define your happiness. It should not be the cause of your happiness. A person is never the fix to a problem. Your soulmate is not someone who should fill a gap in your heart. A relationship should only ever, and can only ever, make your life potentially better and happier, but it is your responsibility to make yourself happy and be a complete person on your own.

    So as the person who's ex is now dating one of my good friends, I don't care what they do. I don't care if they break up, if they fall in love, or if it simply doesn't work and they part ways or stay together for 40 years. SHE was not the reason for my happiness during the relationship, and the two of them have no influence on it now. Only I can do that for myself.

    That being said, the way they handled it was very disrespectful and inappropriate and that is why I am no longer friends with either of them. I am not angry at them for their relationship, I am angry because of how shitty they treated their respective relationships with me. I think THAT is the necessary evolution we can achieve, respect for our friendships over some inflexible, unpractical rule.

    ReplyDelete
  24. I don't think not dating friends' exes has anything to do with following 'rules for straight people,' I think it's just a general common sense thing that you should be careful before hopping in the sack with the girl who broke your friend's heart a week ago. Your friend might not appreciate it.

    It's a situation-by-situation thing. If your friend goes through girls like tissues and cares about them about as much, you can decide for yourself if you want to start something with one of the many and figure it's alright. If your friend dates one person every two years and each relationship is deep and meaningful and ends tragically...probably not a good idea!

    Personally, I would put a friend's feelings first over a potential romance if it came to that.

    ReplyDelete
  25. The smaller dating pool makes sense, but I also think that the concept doesn't apply to lesbians because of the *um* fine line between friendships and romantic entanglements that we so often have. We often date our friends and are friends with our exes, etc.

    Maybe we do that because we don't sharply separate women into friends and men into people to date (not that straight people should do this either.) It's just that when you date people of the same gender, society's rules about gender norms, etc, just get thrown out of the window.

    So, although it should be viewed on a case by case basis, I think that dating your friend's exes shouldn't be that big of a deal, as long as everything is honest and open about it. After all, our relationships with each other are super complicated as it is!

    ReplyDelete
  26. IMO that rule is not about who you f*ck, but about boundaries, so it has nothing to do with being hetero or homo, and it has absolutely nothing to do with queers adopting straight rules, or some such BS.

    Maybe those boundaries are not the same for the GLBT community. I prefer not to date my exes, but it ofc depends on the situation.

    I definitely don't think a smaller dating pool justifies it in every situation. I mean, that just makes us sound desperate. I'm fine being single until the right person comes along and really value my friendships.

    ReplyDelete
  27. That arm wrestling shit started right here in cville, at the diner, across the street from Starr Hill. And now it's everywhere! Crazy!
    The local group is clawville.org and I unearthed an old, old, picture from my archives:
    http://starrhillgirl.wordpress.com/2008/07/09/random-recap-plus-nablopojuly-lameness/

    ReplyDelete
  28. I would never date my girlfriend's exes, but if she were to become my EX-girlfriend, I might date some of her friends. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  29. Ah, the queer girl's social circle. Sometimes you're not even DATING your best friend's ex - sometimes you ARE your best friend's ex. Le sigh.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Ok. So recently, my ex-gf(1)'s ex-gf(2) went town to San Francisco pride to hang out with my ex-gf(3) and her new gf(4), who she met through her ex-gf(5), who she met through her....ex-gr(6).

    My ex-gf(1)'s ex-gf(2) brought along her new gf(7), who she happens to have met through her ex-gf(8)'s ex-gf(9)'s friend(10), who was dating her gf(7) at the time. This is a true story that spans 5 cities, and apparently 11 vaginae.

    Sometimes I like to count the links on the chain of lesbian devastation.

    All of that to say, yes, it is all terribly incestuous...and generally, if you want to date an ex of mine, I'll probably give you some advice and laugh it off.....

    But somehow in those knots of ex-girlfriends, there is one particular girl who will always have my heart in some way or another....and even though I can support her relationships with people she finds? If anyone that I consider a friend tried to get involved with her....they just wouldn't be my friend anymore.

    Not because I can't share, but because it would hurt me. Friends are people who don't want to hurt me.

    ReplyDelete
  31. PLEASE please tell me you've all heard Team Gina's "Wife Swapping". This is super relevant, you guys.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcHHuqpOk8A

    ReplyDelete
  32. I think that the core part of this is the part about friends. If they are, then you should be honest with them as soon as you have feelings at all about dating their ex. If things just happen, then just tell them. Yes, they'll be upset, but in the long run you'll still be a friend if you're honest. If things blow out of proportion (which is fairly common), then at least you'll know you followed your heart in all respects. Now; on the other hand, if you just want to sleep with their ex and be done, then you're just a penis and have no business even having friends in the first place. The end.

    ReplyDelete
  33. heck, I even sleep with my own exes!

    ReplyDelete
  34. I wouldn't do that to my friend if the situation is one of those complicated ones we mentioned , i would rather stay alone than hurt a good friend ..
    cheers !

    ReplyDelete
  35. And what if you date a good friend's ex-girlfriend and it causes major drama, but then it turns into a long, happy relationship?

    I did that. I also did a terrible job of it, and kind of lost a friend because of it.

    BUT. I think the rules are ridiculous for everybody. I don't think there's a rule -- "never do it" or "fair game" -- that's going to work every time for anybody, gay or straight or whatever. Except for the one rule to rule them all: don't be a douche. And not being a douche is going to look different in every situation. (Protip, though: 99% of the time, not being a douche requires communication.)

    ReplyDelete
  36. I totally agree.
    Most us lesbians, already know each other.
    depending on where you live of course.
    People can make up their dumb rules etc
    but you cant always fight lust.
    and most us lezzies have a story similar to Brigids

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  37. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  38. "Protip, though: 99% of the time, not being a douche requires communication." Word.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Ok, admittedly I'm a straight but I think even for the straights the rule isn't so much "don't date your friends exes" the rule is "don't date people your friend is still fucked up about if she has a good reason." That break up was 2 years ago and they only dated for like 2 months and she's just being selfish? WOMAN UP and let your friend date who she wants. That break up was 2 weeks ago and she was your BFF's wife? STAND DOWN

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  40. Hos before 'mos.

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  41. I've had this "rule" go a step further recently. My best friend is a baby dyke with VERY low self esteem (only ever friends, no attraction there at all between us). She has a gf she is VERY happy with who is 10 years older. I met her gf's ex a couple of times, we hit it off, hung out when we were out clubbing, flirted. NOTHING more. But then my friend tells me our friendship is done because I disrespected her because of my hnaging out with the gf's ex. Ummmmm? Wow. I was floored. She obviously hates the gf's ex, but if we started dating, doesn't that take her out of the picture? She wouldn't have to worry about her gf and the ex getting back together (which wouldn't happen, anyway), but if I'm distracting her, thats good right? I still don't understand where I went wrong in that situation. I should have just slept with the ex and at least it would have all be worth it!!

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  42. Time period: High school.

    Set the scene: Was really good friends with J. Dated first love K for a few months. K and I broke up. J and I drifted apart.

    Drama: A year later, J and K started dating and I was furious when I found out about it from someone else rather than one of them. However, once the shock wore off I didn't really care.

    Follow-up: A couple of years later I [very briefly] dated K again, and now I'm friends with J again.

    Kicker: K got around. J and I both lost our virginities to her.

    Reality: After my initial fuming, it really wasn't a big deal. I also live in South Carolina, and as a liberal feminist queer that's into out, creative/artistic girls... yeah, the pickings get really slim really fast. That said, if any of my close friends were to date my current special someone, a girl I've been dating off and on for the past three years, anytime soon... I would probably flip my shit.

    So I agree with the general consensus that it's mostly fine and just a part of lesbian life, but also a situation-to-situation thing.

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  43. Confession: I dated my best friend's ex girlfriend.

    My best friend is a straight boy.

    ...

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  44. (It all turned out fine, we're still best friends)

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  45. I think when it is the once it a life time true love rest of your life kind of thing meant to be thing you have to go with it. If it is forever you are working on, That person has to be right even if she is someone's ex. Someone you know.
    If you are just hooking up for a night or a week or even just a couple of years you can't be hurting other people to satisfy that because you will keep doing it over and over again "til everyone you know has been hurt or cares about someone who has been.
    me myself, I never would have dated a friends ex if she had not made sure we were at the same party together, freshly single and both open to that forever thing. God bless her. It has turned out to be the biggest longest best relationship that ever came my way.

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  46. umm some of these responses are intense! though i appreciate the sass... i think some of the str8h8 has got to go! it seems regressive to assume that straightness implicates all straights in being chicks b4dix or whatever. i think the underlying mission in a quest to solve this post's query has got to be one that complicates what's already complicated. imagining straight spheres as always abiding to shitty straight rules doesn't get the ball rolling in terms of creative solutions or further ideas. i guess i'm just saying that reactions aren't the same as responses, and there's prolly plenty of straight girls who have imput on how to deviate from these messed up commonsense ideas.

    love this blog!!! thanks!!

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  47. just talk to the friend whose ex it is. that's the most accountable radical thing you could do i think. you can still date the ex if your friend is just being an ass i guess yanno? like you can enter the conversation knowing what you're gonna do, but still respect the friend/ship and talk about it!

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  48. I agree with the people that say it depends on the person. I am currently in a situation where 2 of my exes (one guy and one girl) are dating....and I couldn't be happier for them. They are my 2 best friends and happiness is all that matters to me. Now I have never done this myself bc well as someone who isn't really out and has a relatively small pool. I also agree with the Idea that its not a matter of being straight or gay but rather who the people are.

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  49. I don't know, I'd just rather not. I'd rather my best friend didn't date my ex girlfriend and lie to me about it for ages. Please no.

    I should make friends with more straight people, maybe. Although then I just end up hooking up with them anyway and then shit gets weird. Hmm, what to do.

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  50. so this just happened. it's late morning hours i'm up drinking a beer reading blogs while my girlfriend is deep asleep next to me:
    "hey babe wake up i need to ask you a question"
    "wha wha.... sleepy mumblings"
    "no seriously just real quick"
    "ok" eye focusing
    "you know that girl you dated 2 girls before me....what was her name (fill in name)?"
    "yeah"
    "is that her?"
    point to picture on your blog
    "oh yeah that is ..... what time is it?"
    "late go to bed"
    hehe reading about ex's and seeing a picture of actual real life exes
    awesome

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  51. I feel like we should make a chart on if we should go out with our friends ex's or not....

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  52. I agree with Blue. Like a flow chart!

    One of my close friends for awhile was an ex of mine. Why? Because she was an ex of EVERY. PEER. LESBIAN. IN. THE. COUNTY. It was like a rite of passage, "if you're a lesbian born in '86-'91, you're going to have a short fling with [Lezbo]."

    There had been a couple times where I had been like "hey, I like this girl, and I have a CONSIDERABLY smaller dating pool than you, can you ummm not touch plz?" and then she would and then I'd huff and puff for a few minutes and then we'd move on.

    One day, a friend of hers came in from out of town, and very rapidly it was like "hey, you're hot, you think I'm hot, let's dry hump." Sheeee didn't appreciate that. Weeee didn't talk for like six months. I still think it would have been worth it if the relationship didn't fall apart quickly due to family issues with the other girl. She was gorgeous.

    I guess my point is, being a bit more of an adult now than I was at the time of that situation, open communication is sort of a key to navigating those situations cleanly. I didn't do that with my friend; but I also didn't feel like she had given me the same respect. Even my straight friends do it. Just ask, and if you get told no, move on. Or plan your secret love affair. It's preferred you move on, but...

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  53. I slept with my guy friend's ex.

    It was actually his suggestion, she had barely been on my radar...it was a one time thing and everyone is fine. :)

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  54. The "don't date your friend's crush/ex!" thing has always bothered me. People aren't property, you don't get to call dibs on a human being, and you sure as hell don't "own" someone EVEN AFTER you've broken up with them.

    However.

    It IS still a case-by-case scenario, in a way. Not because of your friend having dibs, or the ex being "sloppy seconds," or even because of your friend being hung up on the ex still. No, the big question here is, why was there a breakup? How did it go? And if the answer to either question is bad, ask yourself two things:

    1. Do you really want to date someone like that? If they were cheating, or being a totally immature little brat, or being controlling, or being emotionally (or physically!) abusive, or one of any number of good reasons to drop it like it's hot, it's probably not a good idea to hook up with them for your own sake. Why would you want to?

    2. Would dating this person show a total lack of respect for your friend? Again, if the ex was somehow hurting your friend, what kind of message are you sending to them when you decide to hook up with her? This isn't talking about cases like "we happened to have a messy breakup and now you have to decide if OUR FRIENDSHIP is worth more to you than HER!" but more like... "this person hurt me badly, and callously, and either you don't care, you don't think it was 'that bad', or you just flat-out don't believe me."

    Talk to your friend. Always, talk to your friend. I have pretty damn reasonable friends who tend not to cling onto their exes, and wouldn't side-eye me for going after them as long as the breakup hadn't been because they're a horrible person (in which case they'd be really freaking concerned for me). Work it out. Unless your friend is a complete drama queen, it probably will NOT be as hard as you think it might be. We don't own our crushes; they can make their own decisions, just like every other person on the planet. And we sure as hell don't have any control over our exes once we break up with them.

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  55. Reading this blog reminded me of the ridiculous shit I went through during high school, which was not too long ago.

    Enter me at 14 years: I meet E, we ‘experiment’ and learn about each other’s bodies, (it’s the first time either of us have been with a girl) and it is AMAZING. I am totally in love. A few months later she decides she isn’t gay and we don’t talk properly for about a year. I thought I would try to kill myself and it takes me the whole year to get over her.

    At 15, L comes along. She is very cute and has recently come out to her friends and her family. We are in some of the same classes and we talk a lot. Her and E are good friends. It takes me a long time to admit that I like her and by the time I turn 16 we will have been dating for a couple of months. I eventually fall in love with her and it feels like she saved me from my eternity of depression caused by E.

    I’m nearly 17 now and L decides that she is bored of me. This is after a year of being together. I go down the same track as I did with E, majorly depressed and feeling like I wanted to die. However, there is another ‘mostly out’ girl at school, she plays a lot of AFL (Australian Football) and basketball (VERY GAY). So I decide to have fun with her and casually date, this is M. As L discovers that I’m now dating M she thinks she has made a mistake and asks if we can get back together, I say no. I’m quickly getting over and am happy being friends.

    I turn 17 and am happy dating M as L gets more persistent and gives me countless reasons to start falling for her again. I’m now faced with the decision to choose between L and M and it drives me insane. I choose M because I know that she will hurt me a lot less and I can’t see myself falling in love with her. Shortly after I choose M, she cheats on me with another girl at a basketball camp. I’m strangely unmoved by this and sensed it would happen anyway. I feel that our friendship was more hurt than our romantic relationship.

    Towards the end of high school I start falling for L again as she has a new interest R. I’m not as hurt as I was previously but I try to get as much attention as I can from L. I’ve noticed that R is hot too. While L makes failing attempts to get with R (because of messing around with me), L and R’s connection slowly dwindles. I see this as a great opportunity to get back with L but it is cut short by M telling L that I’m actually in love with M (which is a lie). I stop talking to M but still pursue L. Things are never the same again and L ends up leaving the country for a year. So I begin talking to R, seeing as her and L never made it happen…

    I finish school and a few months before I turn 18, R and I get together and it is the most fun I have had EVER. She is everything I could ever want. We fall in love and are still happily together now. I’m 19.

    I haven’t talked to E, L or M for over a year.

    During the latter period, L, M, R and myself all hooked up with each other on separate occasions.

    I’m almost certain that E and L are now together.

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  56. Wife swapping! It's not mean, it's just how it is. Seems like in the whole world there's only twelve lesbians. And we don't gotta worry 'bout kids, so you're gonna end up dating all the exes of your friends.

    http://www.myspace.com/teamgina/music/songs/wife-swapping-23165187

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  57. Maybe it's just me, but I would rather be celibate for eternity than fuck/date/fantasize about a friend's ex. Being gay or straight doesn't factor into it. Human decency doesn't have orientation-specific boundaries. Are we, as a group, really so skanky that we can't control ourselves enough to avoid shit like that?

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  58. The only thing about dating a friend's ex is that it can seem slightly ingenuous. When they broke up I was right there with my friend telling her she deserved better, or she made the right decision, if her ex broke up with her it was complete idiocy and she'd be sorry, etc. the things you say to a friend. To turn around and date that ex... I'd at least give it a little time.

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  59. I think it depends on the situation. Like who's involved and what happened.
    If your friend doesn't care, then I don't see why not. Also if the relationship was FOREVER AGO and there were no hard feelings, that should be okay (like I said if everyone's okay with it).
    But if bad shit happened in the relationship, or the friend never got over them, probably not the best idea.
    Like I said, depends on the situation.
    But I'm probably pointing out the obvious soooo I'll shut up now.

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  60. This year. I am going to be the girl with goddamn pasties. Fuck yes.

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  61. Are we going to get an HP review from you? I remember from previous entries that you are a fan. I'd love to hear your take of the end of an era.

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  62. If effingdykes.blogspot.com was made into a book. I would read it from cover to cover. ALOT.

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  63. omg an effing dykes book would freaking RULE.

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  64. 4th of July booty shorts and tank tops are literally what turned me gay.
    No, seriously. I still remember I came out on July 5th.

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  65. I love your blog hehe
    I learned my lesson when i followed the "bro's before ho's" thing. I think i ruined my chances with a very beautiful girl that i had fallen for, just because he had seen her first and had known her longer. It didnt work out for them and in turn she began to think that i was no diffrent from him...


    Now i spend almost every other day thinking "what if?" so i say now! fuck the rules and just live life. friends come and go but love only happens when it truly manifests itself.

    If your friend becomes bitchy just sit her down and tell her "look hun, i really like her and im sorry that it didnt work out between the two of you but i really want to give it a go." let them get mad and pissed and yell and maybe kick yah in the shin(really hurts). If they truly care about the friendship and start to see the situation in a differnt light they will come around.

    I only have 1 "what if?" and i want to keep it that way, though i hope one day it would become a 0

    Plus i love all girls ;)

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  66. Sooo.. What do you do when you like a person that stopped loving their girlfriend and is in the middle of breaking up? & there is Deff a vibe b/w u two..

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  67. Good lord do I love love love your posts!! Thanks!! Much V love!!

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  68. Of course I would date my friends' exes, or my ex's friends. I live in a small town and there's just no way around it. I like to surround myself with low-drama, low jealousy people, and I've never found myself in the middle of a catfight. I agree that communication makes all the difference.

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  69. Another gay KristaAugust 2, 2011 at 1:21 AM

    I love the title of this post. LOL.

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  70. how about don't do to others as you wouldn't want done to you. or is that a cute straight person rule too? If you're willing to break a friendship then by all means go ahead.

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